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RE: [FW1] RE: competancy of "certified" CCSA's/CCSE's




HI all,
        Tales from the "toy dept" (sorry but that what the m'frame people call
it around here!). Although I have 8 yrs experience in LANs, it is getting to the
stage where I have to kneel down and pray towards Bill (ie, get a MCSE). NO big
company will employ me with out a piece of paper.
        Give it 2-3 years and I think it might start in the firewall arena (yep
it is getting that way with the networking work, not that cisco is pushing that
now are they? D'oh!). 
   
   buy now

   Damian.
   
   
-----Original Message-----
From: <karimi@ca.ibm.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 2:39 PM
To: fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com
Subject: [FW1] RE: competancy of "certified" CCSA's/CCSE's 







Don't base your hiring practice on a little piece of paper that says your
potential hire(ee) is smart  :-)

if you had a Checkpoint FW-1 person with 5yrs of experience and no certificate,
vs. a new hire
saying he spent all of FOUR (4) days in a classroom to listen to what sums up as
basically a Checkpoint
marketing course - I'd feel pretty sorry for your organization if you hired the
latter.

it's like all those people who take are on the M.S.C.E frenzy -   they spend 6
months in a classroom to
get a pretty piece of paper of Microsoft and the M.S.C.E logo on their business
card and come out
wondering why they can't get a job and why the individual with 5 years of
experience who has been
working hands-on with NT and Netware everyday was hired instead.   And now
unfortunately.
 the same thing is happening with the CCNA. (Cisco).


___________________________________________
k


"Ingalls, Larry" <LIngalls@terraindustries.com> on 09/03/99 10:11:16 AM

Please respond to "Ingalls, Larry" <LIngalls@terraindustries.com>

To:   Stuart Irving/Markham/IBM@IBMCA
cc:   "'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'"
      <fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com>
Subject:  RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam





Irregardless of how you argue the issue, the fact still remains that we
still have to play by the rules that net us the best positions, with the
best companies. Every profession in the technical industry needs to have
some measurement of what knowledge you have in the field. It may not be fair
to those who have tons of experience and no certifications, but I have found
that sometimes classroom instruction gives me more insight into what I am
working with than hands on experience alone. Think of certifications as good
addition to hands on experience. Besides, if the HR person is smart they
will look at experience as well as certifications!

Thanks,
Larry Ingalls
WAN Administrator
Terra Industries
Office (712) 277-7331
Fax (712) 277-7234
Lingalls@terraindustries.com <mailto:Lingalls@terraindustries.com>
"Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right to be wrong,
because then you will lose the ability to learn new things and move forward
with your life." -Dr. David M. Burns

     -----Original Message-----
     From:     sirving@ca.ibm.com [SMTP:sirving@ca.ibm.com]
     Sent:     Friday, September 03, 1999 8:16 AM
     To:  Ingalls, Larry
     Cc:  'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
     Subject:  RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam


     Your arguement is why I really dislike the whole certification
process that
     started with CNE's.  I have seen good and bad people using Cisco,
Netware, NT
     and Checkpoint and I have yet to find any sort of relationship
between having a
     certification and being able to do the work.  It's about time hiring
mangers
     woke up and realized that all these tests prove is that the person
can memorize
     details in a book.

     And if you take it to the extreme, then what does a college degree
even give you
     versus learning while doing.


     "Ingalls, Larry" <LIngalls@terraindustries.com> on 09/03/99 08:56:41
AM

     Please respond to "Ingalls, Larry" <LIngalls@terraindustries.com>

     To:   Stuart Irving/Markham/IBM@IBMCA
     cc:   "'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'"
           <fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com>
     Subject:  RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam




     I hate to tell you this, and maybe it is just because you haven't
looked for
     a job in awhile, but those certifications are what help you resume
stand out
     from the crowd! I also am a strong believer in actual experience,
but with
     out something to prove that you know what you are talking about how
are
     people to know? Especially if they are looking for somebody to fill
a
     position and don't know you from a hill of beans? If you don't
believe in
     certifications, then do you not also believe in a college degree?
I'm not
     being critical, but how does anyone know if you measure up if you
have no
     certifications? Just my two cents.

     Thanks,
     Larry Ingalls
     WAN Administrator
     Terra Industries
     Lingalls@terraindustries.com <mailto:Lingalls@terraindustries.com>
     "Aim for success, not perfection. Never give up your right to be
wrong,
     because then you will lose the ability to learn new things and move
forward
     with your life." -Dr. David M. Burns

          -----Original Message-----
          From:     sirving@ca.ibm.com [SMTP:sirving@ca.ibm.com]
          Sent:     Friday, September 03, 1999 7:32 AM
          To:  Mike Givens
          Cc:  'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          Subject:  RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam


          Why are people taking the CCSA/CCSE exams?  As a person that
doesn't
     believe too
          much in certifications I am wondering why people are paying
money to
     obtain a
          piece of paper that says they know how to do their job.  This
is
     even more valid
          when you consider that everyone says there are wrong answers
and
     misleading
          questions on the test.

          I know I probably won't get any answers back but thought I
would
     ask.



          Mike Givens <mikeg@iowa.com> on 09/02/99 02:58:36 PM

          Please respond to Mike Givens <mikeg@iowa.com>

          To:   "'Vervoort Susan'" <SueV@SAMG.com>, "'Hutchison, Jim'"
                <JimHutchison@metronet.ca>,
     "'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'"
                <fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com>
          cc:
          Subject:  RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam





          We just took the course's, and the instructor stated, and I
quote:

          "Study the User Guides only !  All the answers are in those
books !
     "

          I am getting ready to take the CCSA and CCSE test on the same
day.
     (In about
          three weeks.)

          Wish me luck !

          Mike Givens MCSE

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Vervoort Susan [mailto:SueV@SAMG.com]
          Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 1:38 PM
          To: 'Hutchison, Jim';
'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          Subject: RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam



          yep. 500 is right, the only other way to get that book, is to
take a
     2500$
          course.
          I however passed the CCSA without the course or the course
guide.
          I used the 75$ firewall 1 manual to study from. I took the exam
     three times
          though... That was because with no third party input, it is
hard to
     know
          what to study...
          I missed the first exam by 3 questions and the second by 1. My
     reason was
          that i had no idea what questions were incorrect on the first
one,
     so i
          second guessed myself on the second exam...
          After migrating our our firewall and doing some more studying,
i
     passed the
          third one no problem...

          Hope that gives some insight from someone who did it the hard
way...


          Thanx
          Sue V

          Susan Vervoort-Airey
          Sales & Merchandising Group
          Exchange & Web Administrator
          905-238-8058 x263
          416-563-5521 pager
          mailto:suev@samg.com

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From:   Hutchison, Jim [SMTP:JimHutchison@metronet.ca]
          > Sent:   Thursday, September 02, 1999 11:08 AM
          > To:     'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          > Subject:     RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam
          >
          >
          > ...a question about Canadian training:
          >
          > I've found that the best I can do for self-directed CSSE
training
     is to
          > buy
          > the manual from a training shop for $500 and write the exam
for
     $200.
          > Checkpoint JUST recently removed the order form for the
manuals so
     only
          > authorized traning centers can buy the material.
          >
          > Is this anyone else's experience?  500 clams for a manual
seems
     steep to
          > me...
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Vervoort Susan [SMTP:SueV@SAMG.com]
          > > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:02 AM
          > > To:   'Chris Dodd';
'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          > > Subject:   RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam
          > >
          > >
          > > Yes, that manual you got in class.
          > > And the Standard manual you can get off the cd or in a big
red
     box form
          > > checkpoint...($75.00)
          > >
          > > There are 47 questions, you need 33 to pass.
          > > I would not say they are hard, but they are tricky. Some
     questions have
          > > you
          > > trying to figure out if they mean what they are saying, or
if
     the
          > question
          > > is just poorly written...
          > > I managed to pass it though...
          > >
          > >
          > > Thanx
          > > Sue V
          > >
          > > Susan Vervoort-Airey
          > > Sales & Merchandising Group
          > > Exchange & Web Administrator
          > > 905-238-8058 x263
          > > 416-563-5521 pager
          > > mailto:suev@samg.com
          > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From:    Chris Dodd [SMTP:Chrisd@remingtonltd.com]
          > > > Sent:    Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:29 PM
          > > > To: 'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          > > > Subject: RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > By 'study guide', do you just mean the Student User
Guide?
     Thats the
          > > only
          > > > book I got in my CCSA class.
          > > >
          > > > How hard are the tests?  I feel that I know the class
material
     very
          > well
          > > > and
          > > > use the product anyway.
          > > >
          > > > CHris
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: Vervoort Susan [mailto:SueV@SAMG.com]
          > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:44 AM
          > > > To: 'Poulin, Alex';
'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          > > > Subject: RE: [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Last time i checked (my exam is tomorrow) there were no
     practice
          > > questions
          > > > or exams.
          > > > They say the best thing is to read the "manuals" that you
can
     order
          > from
          > > > checkpoint and go over the study guide.
          > > > I found that there aren't even any third party books out
there
     yet...
          > > (one
          > > > in the works...)
          > > >
          > > > Hope that helps...
          > > >
          > > > Thanx
          > > > Sue V
          > > >
          > > > Susan Vervoort-Airey
          > > > Sales & Merchandising Group
          > > > Exchange & Web Administrator
          > > > 905-238-8058 x263
          > > > 416-563-5521 pager
          > > > mailto:suev@samg.com
          > > >
          > > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > > From:  Poulin, Alex [SMTP:Alex.Poulin@emergis.com]
          > > > > Sent:  Tuesday, August 31, 1999 9:14 AM
          > > > > To:    'fw-1-mailinglist@lists.us.checkpoint.com'
          > > > > Subject:    [FW1] Helo for CCSA Exam
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hello,
          > > > >
          > > > >     I would like help and suggestion before taking the
CCSA
     exam, I
          > > did
          > > > > the
          > > > > CCSA course and I want to passe the CCSA exam before
doing
     the CCSE
          > > > > course.
          > > > > Anybody have sample questions or sample exam?
          > > > >
          > > > > Best Regards,
          > > > > Alex....
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Alex Poulin
          > > > > Emergis Development
          > > > > BCE Emergis
          > > > > tel:(514) 868-2200 #3666 / fax:(514) 868-2324
          > > > > alex.poulin@emergis.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >

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